Activism
Arrest, a lost passport, 40 days of Russian “khthon” in Orel, and an escape from the cops to a free country — you could read about all this in the first part of our conversation with Papa Bo. In this second part, we offer you the continuation of our talk, moving away from prisons and arrests to discuss the Belarus Outside Sound System, what to expect (and what not to expect) from the music scene remaining in Belarus, and whether music can truly be apolitical in our time.
Papa Bo, Belarus Outside Sound System
— This next series of questions is dedicated to music. After “Korpus” closed, you and part of its team created Belarus Outside Sound System. Tell us about it?
— Belarus Outside Sound System is a touring Belarusian musical initiative. The idea for it was born right after moving, when we found ourselves in Georgia just as Russia’s war against Ukraine began. We realized that the best thing we know how to do is create loud, conceptual events. At that time, a massive wave of emigrants hit Georgia, including Belarusians, who weren’t always treated well because the invasion of Ukraine had been launched from Belarusian territory.
The Belarusian community in Georgia was quite large at the time, and we wanted to do something to show that we stand with Ukraine and are against all this sh*t. As organizers and leaders of the scene, we decided to hold a major Belarus Outside Sound System event to support a Ukrainian fund and gather the active Belarusian community to raise money for it.
We organized a rave attended by 600 people. We raised 4,000 euros and transferred it to a fund helping the children of Ukrainian refugees. We realized this was an effective model that needed to continue, so we decided to create a movement that would travel to different countries and cities where there is a Belarusian community and hold events — not “vyshyvanka” dances or straw-weaving workshops.
We felt, and I am still convinced, that the engine of change is active youth. We speak the musical language of the youth — alternative music, electronic music, and more. This language has a larger and more active audience. And that’s how it all started spinning.
We began looking for funding and opportunities to hold charity events. We are constantly searching for different options. Since our inception, we’ve held many events and organized a stream in collaboration with “UKRAiNATV” — a streaming platform from Krakow. We raised money for Christmas presents for the children of Belarusian political prisoners. We released a compilation of Belarusian electronic music — 13 tracks — and all proceeds from Bandcamp sales and streaming go to BYSOL.
We released a vinyl of this compilation and sent it to world-famous DJs, collectors, and various media outlets so that everyone has Belarusian electronic music in their collection. We created the first precedent for publishing a large-circulation compilation featuring diverse, modern Belarusian electronic music.
— What can you say about European venues? Are there characteristic differences compared to Belarusian ones?
— With Belarus Outside Sound System, we’ve already held 9 events in Europe. There were 2 in Georgia, 1 in Berlin, 2 in Vilnius, and 4 or 5 in Poland. Organizing events is very different everywhere; it’s always individual. It all depends on the specific circumstances.
In Minsk, there were also many venues with very different conditions, attitudes, and concepts. It was all very individual. By 2020, a competitive environment had formed in Minsk, with various venues, events, and organizations using different approaches.
It was approaching a European level where the cultural environment is saturated and you have a choice of where to go. Several different events would happen on the same day. You had this and that — with different attitudes, approaches, and specifics.
In Europe, we also encounter completely different organizations and venues.
— The primary audience is, of course, Belarusians. But do many non-Belarusians come? Do they enjoy the spirit of Belarusian events? And can Belarusian events compete with local ones?
— Yes, the main audience is Belarusians, but we try to pull in the local community at every event. We’ve made various attempts. For example, during the first four events of our tour in Tbilisi, Vilnius, Berlin, and Warsaw, we included a local artist alongside Belarusian DJs and performers — someone who supports the idea of solidarity with Belarus and has a local following, so their media presence would draw in a local audience. It worked to some extent. Local clubbers would show up, ask what was going on, enjoy themselves, and soak up the context. It worked a bit.
Regarding competition, I’ll say this: all Belarusian events happening in exile are produced at a high level. The Belarusian scene is quite small and limited, but it is very distinctive. If a local person ends up at a Belarusian party, they notice it stands out on the city’s general party map.
In Warsaw, people who end up at Belarusian events always mention the high culture of the party scene.
Our crowds at concerts, festivals, and raves are very different. If it’s a Belarusian rave, the audience is very intelligent and beautiful. The percentage of drunk or aggressive people is microscopic — it’s an exception. There are no fights, no “beefs,” no incidents at the door.
And the music is the same. It is distinctive and tries to break out of stylistic and genre-based canons.
To sum it up: local clubbers give very positive feedback about Belarusian events compared to local ones.
— You recently toured four cities in Poland. Poland has a very large Belarusian diaspora. In your view, is Polish society able to understand the Belarusian context, our activists, artists, and what you do at Belarus Outside Sound System?
— I think there are those who want to stay in the Belarusian cultural bubble and work only within it, and there are those aiming for a wider European audience who are ready to bring the Belarusian agenda to this new audience. And they are doing it quite well.
— Your website mentions that you expect social changes through music. What changes do you hope to see?
We know how to throw raves and underground concerts. We know how to deliver narratives to an audience interested in what we do. We do what we can. I think it’s quite effective at the level we operate. Obviously, it’s all underground, but you use the skills you have where they are needed.
All our events, except the last one, had charity-based entry. Usually, we seek project funding to cover the costs entirely so that entry can be as accessible as possible.
But despite that, all previous events were for donations, and we transferred 100% of those donations to support Belarusian political prisoners. These were significant amounts. For example, at an event in Warsaw on June 1 last year, we raised 7,000 euros at the door. Those are solid results, even more significant than the information agenda we carry.
— A few questions about Belarus. You’ve been part of the Belarusian electronic music scene for a long time and have seen different stages of the underground and mainstream scenes. What is the present and future of the scene currently remaining in Belarus? Will it be forced to mimic the country’s current conditions?
— It is already mimicking the current conditions because, if you are in Belarus, it’s impossible not to. Right now, Belarus is very harsh regarding concerts, creative expression, event organization, and venues. Everything has changed, but there are still many creative people functioning somehow and finding ways to hold shows. Of course, it is all as “toothless” and cautious as possible, unfortunately.
But people get used to everything. People have to stay and live there and find a way to create. But there is a feeling that in the last year, on that scorched earth, something new is beginning to sprout within the allowed limits. More concerts are being held for artists based specifically in Belarus. “Reactor” (one of Minsk’s first clubs) has reopened.
— I follow a community called “Podpolny Vestnik” (Underground Messenger). The number of Belarusian bands it announces is actually quite high. What do you think awaits them in this Belarusian “hothouse”?
— Yes, I know them and read them too. But most of the bands they write about are based in Belarus. For me, that’s currently a nightmare for a creative person. Their concerts happen extremely rarely, they bring in zero money, and they are very stressful to pull off.
While they are happening, it’s a serious headache for no profit. And getting a visa is almost impossible. These bands and artists can’t go to Europe to perform, they can’t apply for festivals, and they can’t organize a tour.
And here’s another problem — no Belarusian festival in exile, and very few organizers in exile, can invite these artists from Belarus to perform. It would expose them to trouble when they return to Belarus.
Broadly speaking, I can’t invite anyone to Belarus Outside Sound System, even though I’d love to. It’s too risky for them. Just like performing at “Varushnyak” or “Tutaka.”
We are becoming increasingly detached from them, and they from us, which is tragic.
They are left with one option — traveling to Russia, and that raises a big question. On one hand, we condemn Belarusian artists living in Belarus traveling to Russia.
But on the other hand, if you put yourself in their shoes, what else is left for them?
— I remember the punk rock boom in the country in 2000, then the wave of illegal raves. All of it was accompanied by a politicized agenda and a rebellion for personal freedom… About ten years later, a lull set in, and in my view, music lost its critical thinking and became more palatable, convenient for everyone. What is the current agenda for Belarusian musicians inside and outside the country?
— Musicians are now driven by the desire to survive in the creative field. Both those in Belarus and those in exile. Because it’s very hard for a creative person to survive in this hellish modern political agenda. A person of culture is in tenth place right now. Every day such madness happens that your little music feels secondary.
I think many Belarusian musicians are trying to step away from the political agenda and find a way to function simply as creative units. That’s the trend. Both groups are striving for the same thing for different reasons. Everyone is trying to realize themselves as an artist.
I don’t think there is currently an impulse to be active in the political field as a creative entity.
— Let’s conclude our talk with this question: “Can music today be apolitical and exist separately from the context of world events?”
— I believe that music can be apolitical, but the musician cannot. In today’s conditions, a creative person must definitely have a position, and if they have an audience, they should communicate that position to them.
And it doesn’t necessarily have to be done through the language of art — it can be done through the language of their media presence.
There is plenty of instrumental music made by people who have a clear position they express in interviews.
I think the creative product itself can be non-political, but I don’t think any person with a platform, including a musician, can afford to be apolitical right now.