{"id":3701,"date":"2025-12-26T12:33:25","date_gmt":"2025-12-26T09:33:25","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/nottoday.media\/en\/?p=3701"},"modified":"2025-12-26T12:34:39","modified_gmt":"2025-12-26T09:34:39","slug":"im-not-for-love-im-against-it-interview-with-pasha-dzhezhor%d0%b0","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/nottoday.media\/en\/gender\/im-not-for-love-im-against-it-interview-with-pasha-dzhezhor%d0%b0","title":{"rendered":"\u201cI\u2019m not for love. I\u2019m against it.\u201d Interview with Pasha Dzhezhor\u0430"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

“I am fighting not for love, but against homophobia,” says Belarusian Pasha Dzhezhora, who has been organizing a column at Warszawa Pride for the second year. In 2025, she again gathered dozens of compatriots and friends with anarchist flags, rainbow Pahonias, and posters saying “Looking for a boyfriend” \u2014 even despite threats from Belarusian homophobes.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

We talked with Pasha and Lady Serduszko about what the Pride looked like, why democracy without inclusivity is a fiction, and what it means to be an open queer person in a country that is among the five most homophobic in Europe.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/a>
Photo – Stasya<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

There were many of us. And we were visible.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 Hello! Could you tell us about Warsaw Pride 2025? How did it go, and how many people gathered?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 There were a lot of people. In total, there were tens of thousands at Pride because the route was very large-scale. There were many groups, many cars, and overall it felt like an infinite number of people. At the same time, people supported us along the entire route, including from windows. Everything was super. Everything was very cool.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 How many people were in the Belarusian column?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

More than fifty for sure. I think we were likely 70\u201380 people. Belarusian media, Belsat, and Euroradio came to support us. Our anarchists also joined. I was very happy to see such a huge number of people.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Our Ukrainian friends supported us too. Everything was just super. Many people joined us during the march \u2014 even those who didn’t know about the Belarusian column. There were truly many of us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 Do you remember the moment when the idea to create a Belarusian column at pride first appeared? What prompted you?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 Regarding the very first time, I don’t remember exactly when it was. But since childhood, I dreamed of a Pride happening in Belarus. When I first attended Pride in Prague, Czech Republic, I didn’t even know how they were organized. I went there because two of my former friends came with white-red-white (WRW) flags. I saw it in their stories and joined them. Even then, I thought it would be cool one day to have an entire Belarusian group so everyone could have fun, talk, and walk together. It seems to me the desire to create a separate Belarusian group was born specifically in Prague.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 How did you imagine this column when you were first planning it? How did you want other Belarusians to perceive it?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 My main goal was to create a column where there would be many Belarusians, where everyone would be comfortable, and where everyone would find their place and be able to express their own message. Of course, I have many ideas \u2014 about queer “Dazhynki” (harvest festivals), and a column with images of dictators on sticks painted as drag queens. But the main thing for me is a space where everyone can speak out. Regarding perception by other Belarusians \u2014 I didn’t aim to cause a specific reaction. It’s important to me that people react naturally: according to their own views, thoughts, and ideas. The main thing is to draw attention to the problem, to be bright, provocative, beautiful, and extraordinary. And, at least, no worse than other participants.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 How did other Pride participants look at you? Was there feedback from Polish queer groups or other emigrant communities?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yes, there was support. But I was most touched by the reaction of ordinary people. For example, the rainbow Pahonia \u2014 so many people paid attention to it and reacted positively! My journalist friend came with a “Looking for a boyfriend” sign \u2014 very simple, direct, and cool.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

And another moment was when two kids were given small rainbow Pahonias, and they walked with them on their backs. It was very sweet to realize that Belarusians are raising their children with truly democratic values.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/a><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

When democracy has fists<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 You mentioned that you received threats before Pride. What kind of threats were they, and how did you feel?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

These were threats to my friends and acquaintances from several individuals.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

They spoke of physical violence and digital harassment, including in chats. To be honest, I didn’t feel fear \u2014 only the realization that we still live in a world where even those who supposedly fight for democracy often do not understand its essence. I simply took all necessary security measures and felt motivated: to do everything even more powerfully.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 Why, in your opinion, do such threats come from Belarusians who have themselves experienced repression and emigration?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 Unfortunately, many Belarusians who lived under an authoritarian regime equate power with permissiveness. They think that democracy is when you can force others to obey you if you have the “correct” views. But that’s not true. If you think you can threaten or even kill because you dislike someone \u2014 you are not for democracy. You are for violence.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Democracy is about the peaceful coexistence of people with different views. And no one \u2014 neither an official nor a citizen \u2014 has the right to threaten someone with death.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Belarusian activist and non-binary person Pasha Dzhezhora, organizer of the Belarusian column at the Pride in Warsaw, received threats<\/a> of violence from right-wing Belarusians, including Ukraine war veteran Raman Yaromenka (“Senat”), who publicly declared his intent to “find and cut out” participants with WRW flags and the rainbow Pahonia. Threats came via the “Belarusianski” Telegram chat and Instagram; similar incidents occurred earlier in Vienna, Vilnius, and Wroclaw. The right-wingers demand “moral rights” to national symbolism exclusively for those who fought at the front and openly call the LGBTQ+ community a “neo-communist party.” Pasha views this not just as homophobia, but as a step toward a Russian scenario, and responds with community and openness.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 Were there any threats or conflicts during Pride itself?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 Actually, there were very few. I personally didn’t encounter anything bad. I was told that one guy on a bicycle said something unpleasant to a journalist, but it ended quickly; even the police didn’t have time to approach. Someone else had unpleasant conversations with group members, but that also ended quickly. One pair of girls had a bottle with some liquid thrown at their backs by a person on a bicycle who shouted in Russian: “That’s what you deserve.” But whether he was connected to our column is unknown. Overall, everything went quite well. There was only one “interview” with a transgender Ukrainian woman \u2014 as it turned out, by a provocateur. Her friend held her back, and she just took a photo of him.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 What helped you not to stop and still organize this column?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 It’s exactly the threats that motivate me. If there is resistance, it means everything is being done correctly. I don’t want to engage in activism in comfort. I fight against homophobia precisely because it exists. I am not the person who fights “for love”; I fight against. And it was the threats that became the catalyst for creating this column.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

If it weren’t for the threats \u2014 most likely, it wouldn’t have happened this year.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 Is being an open queer person in emigration a liberation or a new vulnerability, considering Poland is among the five most homophobic EU countries?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 I am comfortable. For me, living in a Slavic European country is a value. I’m glad I live in Poland, a country that was part of Belarusian history and is politically close to me. I don’t need a “comfortable West.” I lived in the Czech Republic, was in Germany and France \u2014 I saw how LGBTQ+ people live there. But I need this pressure, this feeling that I need to fight. It motivates me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 Do you cooperate with international LGBTQ+ organizations? Do they know about the threats from right-wing Belarusians?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 I used to work a lot with international organizations, including the UN, on the topic of LGBTQ+ refugees. Everyone knows that the situation in Poland is difficult, including for Belarusians. Regarding this Pride \u2014 I haven’t had talks with international partners yet, but I think my team will handle this. Right now, my main work is cinema, theater, and art. But I am sure there will be a reaction and that those who suffered will receive support.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/a>
Photo – Lady Serduszko<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n
\n

“This is our flag too”: a participant of Warszawa Pride on threats and the right to visibility<\/strong><\/p>\n

Another participant of the Belarusian column at Warszawa Pride, Lady Serduszko, who also received threats from Belarusian nationalists, shares her experience and position:<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2014 How did you react when you learned about the threats against participants with white-red-white flags and rainbows? How did you feel?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2014 I was sent screenshots of a post where my personal information started to be distributed in some nationalist chat. I entered this chat and tried to start a dialogue. But with every message, the conversation became more aggressive.<\/p>\n

Insults and threats began. What angered me most was not even that they were writing nasty things, but that they started posting the personal data of people who didn’t even participate in the march \u2014 neither this year nor earlier.<\/strong><\/p>\n

This was already real bullying.<\/p>\n

\u2014 Why is it important for you to go to pride specifically with Belarusian national symbols?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2014 Because it is about identity. We, Belarusians, are a separate nation. And LGBTQ+ people are in every country \u2014 it’s just that in some places they cannot be visible. We go out for ourselves, but also for those who can’t. To show: we exist, we are here, and we want the same rights. We demand support, including as Belarusians. We want our visibility to become the norm, not the exception.<\/p>\n

\u2014 In your view, how does homophobia in the emigrant environment affect the unity of Belarusians abroad?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2014 It affects it very strongly.<\/p>\n

It is especially painful that the threats come from those I previously respected \u2014 for example, from people who fought for Ukraine in the Kalinouski Regiment. Some of them personally threatened me \u2014 with death, and saying they would find me and deal with me.<\/strong><\/p>\n

One of them even said openly: in this world, it’s not democracy that matters, but force \u2014 physical or security structures. And this is scary. Because it turns out they have already forgotten what they were fighting against. And now they take an example from Polish radicals and the new Polish president \u2014 and themselves become similar to those we fled from.<\/p>\n

\u2014 What would you say to those who think LGBTQ+ people have no right to national symbols?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2014 We carried this flag too. In 2020, it was with us at the protests \u2014 in every district, in every city. We stood under it at rallies; we were beaten and imprisoned under it. Why can it be at Christian marches or other events, but not at Pride? We are Belarusians too. If someone thinks that only participation in a war gives the right to the flag \u2014 that’s unfair. We fight for freedom in our own way. We have earned this right just as much.<\/p>\n

\"\"\n
Photo – Stasya<\/em><\/figcaption>\n<\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n

Pasha Dzhezhora<\/strong><\/strong>. I am no longer an activist. I am a queer artist.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 How did you take care of yourself during activism to avoid burnout and feel safe?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 To tell the truth, I never took care of myself. For me, the main thing is to be true to my idea. I always did everything with my own funds or donations. I didn’t depend on others’ conditions unless they concerned safety.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And I was always helped by my “dark” inspiration \u2014 righteous anger. I went toward fear, conquered it \u2014 and it gave me strength.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

But, of course, this led to burnout. That’s why I’m in creative work now: cinema, theater, and art.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 What do you want to talk about now? And will there be Belarusian columns in the future?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2014 Now I want to say that I’m no longer just an activist. I’m not an activist anymore. My task is to create queer cinema and theater and engage in modern Belarusian art. There will be columns \u2014 definitely. Other Belarusian activists will create them. Maybe me too. But I would like to do something more artistic, conceptual, bright, and even more radical. And it’s important to me that the struggle for LGBTQ+ rights is perceived broadly: as a struggle for friends, for children, for love, for democracy, for the right to be yourself \u2014 even if you love no one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Would you like me to look for more information about current queer art projects by Belarusian artists or international support resources for LGBTQ+ activists in Poland?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

“I am fighting not for love, but against homophobia,” says Belarusian Pasha Dzhezhora, who has been organizing a column at Warszawa Pride for the second year. In 2025, she again gathered dozens of compatriots and friends with anarchist flags, rainbow Pahonias, and posters saying “Looking for a boyfriend” \u2014 even despite threats from Belarusian homophobes. […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":3702,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[22],"class_list":["post-3701","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-gender","tag-kvir-kamjunici-ad-kaming-a-ta-da-jemigracyi"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/nottoday.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3701","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/nottoday.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/nottoday.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/nottoday.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/nottoday.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3701"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/nottoday.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3701\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3704,"href":"https:\/\/nottoday.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3701\/revisions\/3704"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/nottoday.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/3702"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/nottoday.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3701"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/nottoday.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3701"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/nottoday.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3701"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}